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 Differences in Error Estimates with Origin 3.5 and Origin 5.0 - Once Again!
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Clemens Woda

Heidelberg, Germany
0 Posts

Posted - 08/17/1998 :  7:38:00 PM  Show Profile  Edit Topic  Reply with Quote  View user's IP address  Delete Topic
Not too long ago, a note was posted in this discussion group, reporting
differences in error estimates between Versions Origin 3.5 and 4.1, when using
the non-linear curve-fitter. Whereas the errors of the parameters of the used
function seemed reasonable in Origin 3.5, they were certainly too small in
Version 4.1! Scott Bertrand replied that the error estimates had no meaning in
4.1 when the weighting is set to instrumental, statistical or arbitrary
dataset.He also said, that "this has been set as a high priority item to be
fixed in the release of Origin 5.0." However, when testing the new version 5.0
with the same dataset as last time, I could reproduce exactly the same wrong
parameter errors as in Version 4.1 !!!! Appearently this malfunction has NOT
been fixed,a fact which I find very disappointing. It is strange to sell a
data analysis program, in which one of the most important application, fitting
user-defined functions to datasets, does not work correctly.
I suggest setting this as an ULTRA-high priority item to be fixed in
Version 6.0 !!!

a_user

USA
0 Posts

Posted - 08/17/1998 :  7:39:00 PM  Show Profile  Edit Reply  Reply with Quote  View user's IP address  Delete Reply
About error estimates when curve fitting with Origin

This is an important point and anyone interested should read the exchange of
notes posted in April 97 in this discussion group. It was certainly
disappointing to see the same very low estimates of the errors of curve fitting
parameters come up in the newly released Origin 5. However, an e-mail exchange
I have had with Scott Bertrand about this issue has established that there is a
new (but undocumented) option in Origin 5.

If one chooses to use weighting (e.g. the oddly named instrumental option) and
then selects 'control' under 'options', a tick box brightens up and offers the
choice of using or not using 'chi-squared when calculating errors'
(incidentally, this is another example of the odd terminology that Origin
employs -- chi squared has a quite different meaning for most statisticians).
If this box is unticked (the default is that it is ticked) the error estimates
are now those given by Origin 3.5 and earlier. These estimates are very close
to those obtained on analysing the same data using CVFIT, a program which was
written by my colleague David Colquhoun and which is something of a gold
standard for curve fitting.

Scott Bertrand told me in his final e-mail that this feature would now be
documented and put on the Microcal/Origin web site though I haven't seen it
there - perhaps because I haven't looked in the right place. It is important
that it should be documented not least because people using Origin 3.7 through
5 (default settings) to analyse data with weighting may be working with
inappropriately optimistic estimates of the errors of their curve fitting
parameters.

Those interested should also look at the contribution to the discussion group
by David Colquhoun (posted April 21st, 1997).

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Clemens Woda

Heidelberg, Germany
0 Posts

Posted - 08/17/1998 :  7:40:00 PM  Show Profile  Edit Reply  Reply with Quote  View user's IP address  Delete Reply
Curve fitting in Origin 5.0 - it does work!

I thank Donald Jenkinson for his very useful information. Indeed, when
disabling the "Use Chi^2-Formula for errors" option, the error estimates for
the parameter of the fitted function are the same as in Origin 3.5.
The curve fitting does seem to work correctly! I must therefore retract my
harsh criticism. Sorry, folks! On the other hand, this option really should
be documented quickly and that should have been done in the first place.
It is strange why one would want to consider the errors of each data point
for the parameter estimation but not for the error of the parameter.

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Barb Tobias

USA
305 Posts

Posted - 08/17/1998 :  7:41:00 PM  Show Profile  Edit Reply  Reply with Quote  View user's IP address  Delete Reply
Updated Documentation

When you select a weighting method (Instrumental, Statistical, Arbitrary
Dataset, or Direct Weighting) from the Weighting Method drop-down list in the
fitter's Control Parameters dialog box (Options:Control), the Use Chi-Squared
Formula for Errors check box becomes active. This check box affects the
(parameter) Error list box values in the Fitting Session dialog box
(Action:Fit) when fitting by clicking the n Iterations button. (The Use
Chi-Squared Formula for Errors check box does not affect the fit curve; it
only
affects the calculation of parameter errors.)
If the Use Chi-Squared Formula for Errors check box is cleared, then the
parameter errors are calculated as follows:
error[i] = SQRT[cov[i][i]]
If the Use Chi-Squared Formula for Errors check box is selected, then the
parameter errors are calculated as follows:
error[i] = SQRT[cov[i][i] *ChiSqr]
Note 1: The error values obtained when the check box is cleared are the same
results obtained in Origin 3.5.
Note 2: When No Weighting is selected from the Weighting Method drop-down
list
in the Control Parameters dialog box, the parameter errors are calculated as
follows:
error[i] = SQRT[cov[i][i] * ChiSqr]

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